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Simple Request
Wed, 04/07/2010 - 23:16 — cody.1489
Is it to much to ask to have a some what consistent water temperature during showers ? I spend more time fiddling with the taps then it normally takes me to finish a shower. Does anyone else have this problem and if not can I come by and borrow your shower.
This is actually pretty simple
the 'problem' is technology.
For whatever reason, the boilers are aging, and not able to control temperature as well as they once did.
However, this alone is not your problem. The issue (which is the easier/cheaper fix) is the taps.
The old taps work on a very simple system. You turn them to allow a certain amount of water from the hot and the cold. These old taps never took into account differing pressures. So you manually decide the mix that you like best by trial and error.
In the shower, this is namely done by estimating with your feet whether you like the given temperature, and if you dont, adjusting it based on that feedback.
Once its set, its quite static. If the pressure in one or the other changes (as is likely caused by aging boilers) then that temperature you're getting is going to change.
Like in all those classic movies, when someone flushes the toilet in the bathroom, the person in the shower gets scalded.
I never actually bought into this, untill i moved here and got a firsthand experience. I asked my gf to flush while i was in the shower... Haha, not a mistake i made again.
What happened was, toilet tank empties of its cold water, and instantly it needs to refil. This extra drain on the cold supply, means a lower pressure for my shower stream. Hot water is still at the same pressure, so now its pushing harder into that same opening. Less cold gets in, BAM! I scream like a girl. As a few of you likely did.
Anyways, shortly after that happened, i changed my shower hardware. Now this isnt that cheap or easy to do, as it requires a bit of work inside the wall.... BUT! since its in the washroom, there are shutoff valves there, and its doable on your own time (no waiting for those annoying water shutoffs). New technology has taken into account the possibility of changing water pressure, using a diaphram of sorts to equalize the *relative* amounts of hot and cold coming in. Basically if one drops, it senses that drop, and restricts the other from burning your ass.
Now the question is, who should pay for these fixes? This is not something the building is likely to take onto themselves to fix. After all, its inside of each unit, and responsibility of the owner. Tennants renting from owners should talk to them directly, maybe try and work something out. 50/50 maybe? It is in their best interest to have you happy in your home after all. Tennants renting from the condo "rental pool" should bitch long and hard directly at the people running that, because of the same reasons.
The fix shouldnt cost more than $200, and is definetely one which improves quality of showering, and life :)
Rome is absolutely right
I couldn't have said this better myself (thanks for sharing this by the way). Even something as simple as changing your shower head to a newer model will probably help significantly - and that's something you can easily do yourself even with no plumbing experience. When I changed the shower head on my shower it made a significant difference to the number of cold showers I was getting. It hasn't completely fixed the problem, but it has made it better.
This is just a guess here, but I think the recent lack of hot water may have had something to do with the water leak on the 11th floor? I noticed the day after this was fixed I didn't have any problems getting a hot shower anymore.
Awesome
Rome, are you on the Board? If not, you should be.
Thanks for a great, informative response!
Agreed
Yea I totally agree with you - we need Rome on the board, he has some great ideas and he's obviously interested making positive changes to the building. Everyone take note, if you want him on the board you have to vote for him at the AGM!! The residents of the building decide who the board members are.
Yes. It is.
Happens in my suite also.
Is it too much to ask? Of course it is. One of the 3 members on this forum that work with the towers (aldren, cap chris, etc) will come on here saying "Join the Board to voice your concerns" and then say something about "The water heater for the building is old, and too expensive to replace".
Same thing with the elevators.
Welcome to Capital Centre!
Not Quite
Actually, you've never been invited to join the Board. You have to be elected to be a board member, which also requires you to be an owner.
You've been invited numerous times to join the Secuirty Committee. Which you clearly aren't interested in doing and that is fine. It has become apparent that you'd much rather come on the forum to use it as a medium for personal attacks against the two board members that do our best to explain the issues that are raised. Ok, I have thick skin, have att'er.
But, since you obviously aren't interested in knowing what is actually going on in the building or how the issues are being addressed, I'm not going to bother responding to any of your complaints anymore. It is clearly a waste of my time, which can be better spent elsewhere.
Adieu.
It's just profound.
Oh I apologize for getting 'the Board' and 'the Security Committee' confused. Heaven knows that us lowly renting tenants wouldn't be able to join 'the Board'. We're just common serf's after all.
I'm uninterested in joining the Security Committee because I've been here for close to two years now and NOTHING HAS CHANGED! The elevators still don't work properly, the dumpsters out back of south tower still overflow on a regular basis while the other two towers do not (But the Pint shares them too! Yes I get it. Excuses. Enough of those), the security in the building causes people living here to be uneasy, the temperature in the showers has always been sub par, ETC ETC ETC ETC.
What would being a member of the lofty Security Committee accomplish?It's blatantly obvious that in nearly two years, certain issues are ignored.
I'm stunned that you say I'm uninterested in knowing what is actually going on in the building, or how the issues are being addressed. It's mind bending that someone says "You don't care" when the words I'm hammering out are a pretty good indication that I care vehemently about where I reside. What's prolific is how things just stay the same. Relevant issues written on here by tenants, are addressed with "Yup. We're on it." and they don't change at all.
So feel free to ignore a valid point brought up by myself, and don't bother to respond to my complaints. That's good. That will get things up to par in a building where things should be a hell of a lot better than how much tenants are paying for. Well done. Just ignore issues brought up by tenants.
Magnificently amazing. It's just profound.
/facepalm
I haven't complained about
I haven't complained about anything since moving in here and there is alot i could complain about so could someone please answer my question. It is actually dangerous to get in the shower lately because of the extreme variation in temperature. If it was just a small change that is livable (shouldn't have to even deal with that for the price of this place) but when im actually getting burned everytime I have a shower that is not right. Could someome please explain to me why this is going on and why it is acceptable to have this problem and not be fixed. Thank you
Easy now
This building is falling apart and no one seems to care enough to do something about it. Expressing frustration over the fact that the same issues are brought up on this board over and over (the elevators, the lack of security, the parking mess, the overflowing dumpsters in the back alley) and nothing is ever done about any of it is not a personal attack.
Cap Chris, tenants come to this board for answers and solutions. We want to know why we're paying so much money to live in a building with so many problems that are not being addressed. We don't want excuses and empty promises, which seems to be all you have to offer. If your hands are tied in regards to actually fixing any of the issues brought up here, that's fine. Have enough courtesy for the paying residents of this building to say so.
So can you, or anyone else, answer Cody's question? I'm interested, because the same thing happens in my suite all the time.
Answer
I have no problem with anyone expressing their frustrations. Having a forum for residents to express those things is why we built this website. We WANT you to voice your concerns. Why do you think we established this site? Where did anyone have a chance to voice their displeasure before we did build it? In the elevators through vandalism?
The trouble, it would seem to me, is the idea that we're not doing anything about anything. Completely untrue. When I say that we are doing something about it, we ARE. Unfortunately, as I've said before, things don't happen as quickly as everyone would like. There isn't much that anyone can do about that. To do things properly - legally - they take time. If I could speed it all up, I would. Believe me, I very often feel the same way, because I would like to see some concrete results for all the time and effort I invest in trying to address these (and many, many more) problems.
But, when this forum is used by anyone who goes beyond simply presenting their frustrations with any given issue, or complaining about something not being fixed, and used to suggest, imply or directly state that nothing is being done by the Board, or ME specifically (as was the case) that is a personal attack. Those are also statements made out of complete ignorance. Further to that, your statement that I offer nothing more than empty promises or excuses would also fall within the attack framework. If you were to take the time to go back and read all my responses - which I spend a great deal of time composing so that I answer each question as completely as I can or to report on how the Board is responding to each complaint - you will see that NONE are the meaningless gestures you posit. If you feel the answers I invest the time writing - personal time at my own expense, which I could dedicate elsewhere - are mearly lip-service, I can stop repsonding. Would that be courteous enough for you (since you suggest I don't have any)? But, to your point, have there been any varifiable results as of yet? Not nearly to anyone's satisfaction, no. Including my own. To whit:
-We've added an extra garbage pick up to deal with the garbage problem. Will that be enough? Only time will tell. If not, we'll look at it again and see what more we can do.
-We created a security committee to strenthen the security we DO have. The Committee has already done wonders to improve our security since we formed, scant months ago. TheCommittee has also written an extensive proposal on ways to increase security in the building, which we are pushing with great vigor. That said, we live in a downtown highrise, and no matter how much we improve our level of security, it will never be perfect. That's simply impossible to achieve.
-The elevators are old and failing. We know that. We are in the process of having them fixed. Have been for some time. But, instead of just having old equipment on a nearly extinct system being replaced with parts that need to be specially made because they are so old (which is what we've had to do in the interim), we're having the elevators upgraded to new technology. A process which takes time, because it isn't as simple as just "having them fixed." I wish it were. But, there's a lot more that goes into the process before that can even begin. Feel free to contact me if you would like more details on this.
-The parkade issues you (specifically) had are another matter entirely. I can't comment on your particular issue as I'm not (nor is the Board) involved with that part of the process. Can the re-arranging of the parking be done better than it has? It certainly sounds like. (And if you read what I wrote on this subject, you will see that I agreed. All that I offered was an explanation from the Board's perspective and our relationship to the problem. Your complaint, by the way, was the first that any of us (on the Board) had heard about this particular problem). Can the Board do anything to help on this particular matter? Nope. This problem is a tenant-owner issue, not a building issue. We (as a Board) hold no more sway in those relationships than we would in any personal relationship.
Now, as for the last part of your question (i.e. Cody's), I don't have an answer. I have shared the same problem at times. I CAN tell you that the floor you live on, relative to the parkade level where the boilers are located, has an effect on water temperature (the higher you are, the further you are away from the boiler and therefore the longer it takes for hot water to reach the top stories). Does that contribute to the problem? I'm sure it does. I realize, of course, that it isn't an answer to the question. Does the age of the boiler(s) add to the problem? I'm sure that it does as well. Again, however, it doesn't fix the problem. But sometimes, that kind of information is all that I have to give. I haven't come on here and lied to anyone, and I'm not about to start, regardless of whether you find my imput valuable or not. All that I, or Alden, or anyone else who chooses to repsond, can give you is what we know. And on issues like this, as I'm neither an expert nor a plumber, information is all I have to share.
Finally, as I have said many times over, be you renter or owner-occupant, we're all in this together. I, we, WANT to fix these problems. We WANT to improve the building in many areas and make this a better place to live. For everyone. Because this is our home. So, while voicing complaints and identifying problems are good, we could use some help in fixing them. We aren't afraid to ask. What we need are people willing to aid in making this place BETTER. We can do it. Plus, we all become better neighbours. It's really win-win. Are you willing to lend a hand in trying?
Here we go.
Firstly, your 'personal attack' statement is false. My statement about you, or Aldren, or etc, coming onto the thread and saying the quote in my post, is accurate.
Secondly, statements made about the 'empty promises' are also accurate. There have been issues that have been brought up on this forum, that have been outstanding for months. So the 'lip service' you speak of is just that. You feel differently, and that's fine. Such is the way of the world. Thought, from what you mentioned, you're not part of the Managerial Office, but you're part of 'The Board' of people that own units in the building. How such ire is raised in you about something that's not your concern (presumably) is beyond me. Just speculation of course, as you've only alluded to your position in the building and haven't said "I'm one of the repair staff".
Third. Extra garbage pick up. We'll certainly see. As of two weeks back, it was a bio hazardous area. A simple notice in the faulty elevators would have alleviated a lot of grumbling, but that'd also mean open communication. Us simple renters are not omnipotent.
Four. Security. How so? Enlighten us. I see no Security Cameras. The Front Door Lock is often malfunctioning. By all means let us know some specifics of how security has been increased since the inception of the Committee, as there are Tenants that feel the Security Committee is a waste of time.
Five. It's been almost 2 years since I moved here (to be redundant). The elevators have never worked properly. It's always the same problem. Your statement of 'upgrading' and 'taking time' is thin. I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying it's been multiple years since the old elevators functioned as they do in other buildings. The reasons given by yourself and others to calm the irritation of having to lug groceries, boxes, strollers, children, up multiple floors, do not calm irritation.
Six. Parkade. Issue's been resolved. The main office got an earful from multiple tenants, and they fixed the issue of having to ditch parking spaces.
Finally, I'm a tenant. I rent. There are certain things that should be provided to Tenants, by those that run the building. I'm weird in thinking like that. Silly things that have been mentioned in multiple posts on this site. This talk of 'pitching in' and 'lending a hand' just baffles me. It's on the Tenants side to bring up issues that make the Tenants rental suite or surrounding area to the attention of the Management. It's the Managements position to take said issues and see they're repaired. Not patched up as they have been for months. This isn't a Home Owners Association. It's a renter/landlord situation. It's not my job to 'help' management do their job. It's my job to make sure I'm a quiet, conscientious tenant. Rents due on time, noise is kept down, watch out for upkeep that needs attention (in a nutshell, and yes I'm missing points).
I'm willing to lend a hand in pointing management in the direction of something they need to fix. I'm unwilling to go as far as you think everyone should go Cap Chris, because that's not my job. I'm weird like that.
You make some valid points
First let me address some of your specific points:
1) My name is Alden, not Aldren :-)
2) Regarding what the security committee has accomplished:
* There have been numerous occasions where the security committee has found broken locks and brought them to the attention of management. For instance the broken front door lock was brought to the attention of management immediately this week.
* The Security Committee helped to find the homeless people living in the storage room in the parkade. These "tenants" were found with piles of stolen electronics from cars. Since these people were found we haven't had ANY reports of car break-ins (at least that I've heard about).
* We've been putting continual pressure on management to fix minor issues around the building such as broken doors, burnt out lights, and graffiti. Prior to the existence of a security committee a lot of these issues remained unfixed for months or even years. With the security committee most of these issues are getting fixed within a week of being noticed now.
* We've been keeping an eye on furniture being dumped in the alley and in some cases charging the cost of dealing with it back to owners/residents.
* The security committee has had the timing on the parkade door decreased to make it more difficult for people to "tail" you into the parkade.
* The security committee has put together a comprehensive proposal for increase the building security in general, which does include cameras - however whether this proposal gets implemented is up to the board, the security committee has no direct power to install security cameras (unless we want to pay for it out of pocket - which I sure don't)
Whether you consider these things significant is a matter of opinion.
The whole setup of the building between renters and condo owners is complicated and it's part of the reason it takes so much time to get anything accomplished. To sum it up quickly: there is a condo board which is a democratically elected board of owners (both residential and commercial) who make decisions about stuff like: parkade repairs, repairing elevators, adding security cameras etc. Basically if money is being spent on anything that affects the building as a whole, this is where the decision gets made. Unfortunately due to conflicting goals among board members (remember some of the board members are commercial owners, the majority of board members do not actually live in the building) there is sometimes disagreement about decisions. Just as an example of the type of issue that must be dealt with - does the board spend millions fixing the elevators, or should we try to fix them "ad hoc" style by getting parts custom manufactured (since they are so old they don't exist anymore). If we spend millions fixing them someone has to foot the bill for that - and unfortunately no one seems to want to do that. The rental component of the building is controlled by a separate board, the rental board, which is in some cases made up of the same members of the condo board and in some case not. Some of the issues dealt with by the two boards overlap, but for the most part the issues do not - for example the condo board has absolutely no say in whether you get money refunded as a renter due to parking construction.
Judging from what I've seen living in the building and talking to residents I completely agree with you about your concerns as a renter. If I was renting in this building I too would no doubt be expecting more for my money. As much as I would love to help you with this problem though there is almost nothing I can do as a condo board member.
I personally enjoy reading your posts and I think it's obvious that you care about the building or you wouldn't be spending so much time posting to this website. I really think you should come out and give the security committee a try, I think you might be pleasantly surprised. If for no other reason than it'll certainly help you stay better informed about what's going on in the building. Heck our meetings are held at the Pint - if you come out I'll personally buy you a drink. Worst case scenario you come out have a beer, meet some of your neighbors, and then decide it's not for you.
Myself and some of the other member(s) of the security committee are planning to go knocking on doors in the center tower today introducing ourselves, inviting residents to join, and finding out what concerns residents have. If you're in the center tower it'll be the perfect opportunity to introduce yourself, say hi and we can give you more details about anything you want to know.
Bravo
Couldn't have said it better myself YH, thank you.
I'm sorry you feel that my words were personal attacks, Cap Chris. But maybe you can try looking at it from a tenant's point of view. We are not owners, and are therefore not privy to the information you and the Board have. If we are not being advised of what actions are being taken to remedy concerns being brought here, how are we to know what's being done about them? Perhaps a little less time could be spent being defensive and a little more time could be spent on actually communicating with the tenants directly. Notices in the elevators, on the bulletin board in the lobby, and perhaps resurrecting the Capital Centre newsletter would go a long to to accomplishing that.
My Point Exactly
Miss Potter,
Perhaps some of this argument is due to simple miscommunication or lack of understanding. So, I'm going to do my best to clear that part of it up.
I agree that the tenants (and many of the owner occupants) are not getting information about what is happening in the building. I've lived here for well over five years, and I've always felt that (I have not always been a Board member). This site was designed to be an open forum that works in two directions: 1) residents (owners or tenants) could post anything they like including criticism (and I hope you will note that no post has been removed, regardless of how scathing it may have been. We who control the site do not believe in censorship) or any failing (real or perceived) in the building and 2) for those of us on the Board to communicate with the tenants about what is being done about the issues raised. For my part, the lack of transparency is why I choose to spend as much time as I do responding to each issue that I can.
If, however, those raising their concerns don't like my answers, well, there isn't much I can do about that. All I can tell anyone is what I know (i.e. I didn't know what Rome knew about the fluctuating temperature and therefore could not suggest it as an answer. I'm happy that he did, his having already experienced and dealt with the same issue. That is the kind of help I was speaking of before). Yes, I do know more than the average resident because I am a Board member (and no, I don't do actual repairs myself). I share as much information as I can legally provide with everyone here on the forum. Which is the only means of communicating directly with the tenants that I have, short of going around and knocking on everyone's door (which, by the way, I have done in my own tower).
The notices and the newsletter are produced and distributed by Larlyn. I too, wish that these were produced more frequently. How they choose to manage our building is up to them. Yes, they answer to the Board. But that doesn't mean that we can make them do that or anything else. All we can do is judge them on their performance and replace them if they are found wanting when the time comes. They are currently under review.
So, I think, we are on the same page and same side on many of these issues. If, as tenants who rent, you don't feel as invested in the building the same way I do, I understand that. I also understand that you pay your money and expect the service that you pay for. I have no qualms with that either. My being an owner doesn't mean I like any of these problems or that I accept them. Far from it. Believe it or not, I actually like them LESS. As a renter, you can decide you've had enough, pack up and leave. I'll still be here and so will the problem. So, I am always looking for the long term solutions to these problems. Stop gap solutions will only work for so long, and sadly for all of us living here now, many of the problems we now face come from that type of problem solving in the past.
I understand everyone's frustration, and I share it. Granted, I don't live in the South Tower, so I don't have a South-Tower resident's level of frustration with that issue. It would be ludicrous for me to say I do. But on every other issue, I'm just as frustrated as you are. The garbage on the south side of the building doesn't make it look any prettier because it isn't near the other two towers. The issues in the parkade haven't affected me any less than anyone else. When the water is shut off with limited notice, I don't get any either. Owner and Board member be damned, I'm in the same boat you are. Actually, my level of frustration is all that much higher because of those two reasons. Not only am I frustrated with these problems, but my efforts to explain what is being done to resolve them here on the forum are met with disdain. Doubly frustrating.
If, in my responses, my frustration got the better of me and I seemed defensive rather than informative, then I apologize. I'm not on the forum to pick fights or try to engage in any. That's counter-productive. My goal is to communicate anything and everything I can about any given situation. That said, I can't promise that everyone is going to like what information I do have to provide. Perhaps you won't agree with the Board's decision on an issue, perhaps you'll think we didn't go far enough, perhaps you just think we're all idiots. You're entitled to all the above. But, what I can promise is that I take this position very seriously. Which is why my email address is listed on the contact page. I've invited anyone and everyone to contact me personally with any problems or issues that they have, and I still do. I may not be able to solve the problem alone, I may not be able to do anything to solve the problem at all, but at least I'll TRY. And isn't that what everyone seems to really be asking for? That somebody does something, rather than feeling that nothing is being done at all?
Anyway, I hope this has bridged some of the communication gap and cleared up some of these misunderstandings. We'd be far better off as a whole if we used this space as a medium to solve these problems together rather than argue about who is or isn't doing what. Rome may not have been built in a day, but he did fix his shower.
c.
hot water
the system is being worked on by the plumbers as we speak...